Comments on: For the Love of Hanja: On 以朴制昌 and 朝鮮日報 /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/ But I fear more for Muninn... Thu, 16 May 2013 14:30:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.2 By: Krakow guide /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-259528 Thu, 05 Jan 2012 23:22:25 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-259528 How you documented this particular theme at this point is pretty informative as well as properly created. In my opinion you should soon obtain lot of readers.

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By: Gian /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-195178 Sat, 08 Jan 2011 18:32:00 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-195178 Korea4one, I want to answer to your comment. The fact Korean language works without people knowing hanja is completely true. Yet Korean culture developed, for thousands of years, using hanja first, then hanja with hangul. Hanja have been replaced for nationalist reasons, not really for practical reasons. Japan also thought about replacing kanji after the war, but they did not because it would be a practical problem.

Of course we have to define “practical problem” in here. You say that Korean language is functional without hanja and it’s true. The same could be said of Japanese which would work well without kanji. BUT, there would be a loss in meaning, a loss in culture, and a loss in the ability of the people to read the country’s history.

You write that Latin is not used anymore in western countries. Which is true. But comments against the learning of Latin, for example, would mostly come from people who have a low culture. It could be argued that when Europe (and the west) was really growing to rule the world, the learned classes DID know Latin and Greek rather well, and the situation remained so until the 60’s and education reforms in many countries (I will go as far as tell you that those very – can I say – Marxist influenced – education reforms started a dumbing down of Western countries which I think is responsible for a part of the decline you will have noticed the West is suffering). Still, most people with an education in Europe and America would tell you that knowing Latin or Greek is a positive, not negative thing. I come from a country (not an English speaking country) where luckily, some schools still teach Latin from high school, and I am glad I had to learn Latin (as a kid I did complain about it). It’s much easier for me to learn a new language (learning English, a language with a very simple grammar, does not really develop you language abilities so much) and I can understand in part a written text in other latin languages like French or Spanish, even if I never studied those languages. Besides when in our travels around Europe we find inscriptions in churches or monuments, I can understand them, which is usually marvelled at, not frown upon like you in your overnationalistic reasoning imagine.

I think indeed Korea can work well with just hangul. I also think hangul is a wonderful script. On the other hand I think the decision to do away with hanja was a wrong one and that it will do some long term damage to korean culture (which however is so rich it will survive even without hanja). Japan was much wiser in its own decisions.

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By: Seneschal /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-170696 Sat, 14 Aug 2010 08:04:08 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-170696 I’m fluent in Chinese and I am sad that Koreans have abandoned hanja… This is for purely personal rather than academic reasons. It was relatively easy for me to learn Japanese but learning Korean has a much steeper (I feel unnecessarily) learning curve. It would have made mine (and most Chinese-fluent folks) lives easier to learn Korean. This is especially true when watching movies and dramas showing Korean in the 1970’s and earlier when hanja was very prominent in everyday life.

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By: Jongseong /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-168073 Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:59:28 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-168073 This is an old post, I realise, but the author was curious about the compound 與多野多.

This is a variant on the much-used formula 與小野大 or 與大野小, describing the relative sizes of the ruling party and the opposition (in the National Assembly, for example). When quantities (number of candidates, campaign funds, etc.) are to be compared, the forms 與少野多 and 與多野少 are heard. 與多野多 would be a playful variant of this.

There are a number of compounds following the same pattern that can’t possibly date back to the pre-modern period, like 投高打低 and 打高投低, describing the relative strengths of pitching (投) and hitting (打) in baseball.

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By: ハンジャファン /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-114279 Sun, 01 Feb 2009 04:50:44 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-114279 First@ Muninn, you write a very good bloc, it’s so wonderful to read about. I am also very impressed about your language skills in Korean and Chinese.

@Korea4one, I have to say, English and German belong to the same language branche and both derived from Latin and Greek Roots, thats also the reason, why these both languages have sometimes very similiar words with the same meaning, but also a lot of false friends, you could also link it up with French, beacause same is there. Intersting fact in French is, which I didn’t knew before is, that French has still some grammar rules, which directly derived from Latin and still is used in the writing. So after all, yes it would be good if more western people would know more about greek or latin, as it is the same wish, which have western foreigner for the Japanese, Korean and Chinese.

Also the fact, that Japanese would not work well without the Kanji is not exactly right, beacause if Japanese would make space between words, and just juse Hiragana and Katakana, you would become the same system as it is in Korea, or the western language.
And it does work, see just the beginner textbooks which are very common written in Romaji and then with one sylable system Hiragana, and think about the Japanese school pupils, who don’t know at the beginning the Kanji and have to learn.

I for myself, who is still studying the three Asian languages (CJK), would prefer the Hanja, beacause you can make the same link, which you can make in the western languages. My mother language is German (Swiss!) but I also speak French, English and even Polish as a second mothertounge, so I know what I am talking about.^^,

At last, about the Hanja, I prefer them and it really helps me for a better understanding not only for the Korean, but it brings also an interesting view to Chinese and Japanese. Despite this, I read in the Internet on Epoch Times, that South Korea organizes sometimes a conference, and in the latest, South Korea made the suggestion, to make a standard rule for the Hanzi/Hanja/Kanji Usage, which means, they want a list with about 5000 words from all three languages (CJK) and make a writing standard in the chinese characters.

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By: Korea4one /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-114161 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:48:51 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-114161 You guys miss the big picture.
1) Koreans used Chinese characters like English used latin, greek, french, german. ( Vocabulary usage). Its true Korean-Chinese (vocabulary is about 60 percent). Korean-Korean vocabulary is about 40 percent.
2) Korean alphabet ” Hangul” or ” chosunmal” was invented to create simple/practical language without using or depending on Chinese characters. Main Reason: Korean Unity. ( People, land, language, and culture).
3) Koreans can function without using Chinese characters unlike Japanese.
4) Korean newspaper headline is written Chinese characters sometimes not always.
5) Korean Identity: Koreans never has been Chinese.
6) Korea has about 160,000 thousand ( Overseas Chinese) including Shangdong Province Han-People and Taiwanese Han-People. Overseas Chinese might have different opinions regarding to Chinese character usage but they are not Koreans or majority population. Overseas chinese living in korea represent less then 1 percent of Korean populations.
7) Korean should not use chinese characters. Past 600 years. Koreans had no difficulty speaking and writing Korean.
8) Koreans should keep the language simple and practical. If Chinese or Japanese have difficulty understanding Korean ” Hangul or Chosunmal” they should learn Korean alphabet. Very simple and direct language compared to curves and waves like Chinese.
9) Koreans Identity always will be not becoming Chinese. Koreans are opposite of Chinese. Koreans are proud of the fact.
10) Koreans use Chinese characters like latin.

If you so fascinated toward Chinese characters. What would English speaker say about ” Latin” dependence. You would probably hear negative remarks. Yes, Koreans should not use Chinese characters. Better yet leave out the Chinese characters in Korean language.

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By: K. M. Lawson /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-110096 Thu, 06 Nov 2008 11:38:59 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-110096 Thanks Ivan, we certainly share opinions on this issue!

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By: Ivan /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-110028 Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:08:46 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-110028 I also agree with the use of hanja. I also think that they are cool, but very important. It is true that you may read a word with lots of meanings, and understand it by the context. But most people, not only in Korean, but in European languages to, get to use many words or phrases, without knowing the real meaning. This is like saying a word, and you know what it means, in a context, but still, you may wonder: “Why do we say xxxx?” “we know what we´re trying to say, but what does it really means?”.

This may sound as a child-like question, but if you want a complete knowledge of the language, you must know the answer to this and many other questions,
One example would be like saying a word with a latin root, and you may have an idea of the meaning, but the real one may not be the same.
This knowledge is kind of useless in western languages, but in a language like Korean, all the Sino-korean words can end like this, with little knowledge of what you are saying.

At least with hanja we can do that. Not only for this reason, but also because Chinese characters give a special identity to East Asia, even if a language already has its own script, like Kana in Japanese, and Hangul in Korean.

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By: Sukhee Lee /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-103148 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:00:21 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-103148 Thanks FD. Of course I knew the publication of 한한대사전 by Dankook University. But when I wrote the above comment, it was not been completed and has yet to be completed. 한한대사전 is a combined translation of the Morohashi which contains fewer words and Hanyu da cidian which has no proper nouns. Yes, when finished, it will provide many Koreans and some foreigners who bother to read Korean with a handy access to the world of classical Chinese characters and expressions. The real tour de force of the compilation committee of Dankook University is 한국한자어사전 (韓國漢字語辭典 Dictionary of Classical Chinese Words used in Korean works) in four (five?) volumes.

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By: FD /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-101686 Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:58:36 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-101686 I know this an old post, but Lee Sukhee in #5 is incorrect to say, ‘No Han-Han dictionary comparable to the Morohashi is available in Korea’. It seems this monster, which I’ve had the pleasure to use, will dwarf them all when finished :

한한대사전(漢韓大辭典)

http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/01/09/2008010900050.html

Also, the 표준국어대사전 (標準國語大辭典), the largest Korean dictionary, is excellent. I have my own beautifully made three-volume set, but it’s available on-line here:

http://www.korean.go.kr/08_new/index.jsp

Regarding the history of Korean dictionaries, read ‘우리말의 탄생’ by 최경봉.

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By: Jack /blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and/comment-page-1/#comment-94467 Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:31:54 +0000 http://muninn.net/blog/2007/11/for-the-love-of-hanja-on-and.html#comment-94467 I think resistance against Hanja is further complicated with the Chinese nationalists having claims on Korean history. The notion is that not using Hanja is like severing the last bits of historical memories of Korea being a tributary state to China.

Also, things like Word Smart, imo, are a poor way to learn use of a language, but that it is there to help iron out any deficiencies in the basics (either from poor schooling or immigrants who lack experience).

This is evident as though it may help one not lose ‘marks’ for some English test, it also hampers creative word usage; it is quite painful to see these days how metaphors/similes are so bluntly expressed.
Thus, I actually like the flexibility one has with Hangul, it’s just a shame that creative literature isn’t really taught that well in classrooms.

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